Jun 23, 2026
In this episode of Everyday Conversations on Race, Simma Lieberman sits down with Steve Phillips — national political leader, three-time author, Guardian and New York Times contributor, and founder of Democracy in Color. His latest book is
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Are White Men Smarter Than Everybody Else? Playing Offense in the Fight for Racial Justice in America (his latest)
Key concepts discussed:
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SWAMP — Straight White American Male Preference: a framework to reframe the equality debate and expose overrepresentation of white men (29% of the population, yet dominant in every power structure)
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SWAMP Audits — a practical tool anyone can use to assess their organization, city, or institution
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Virtual Precinct Captains — building a personal list of 20 people, keeping them informed, and making sure they vote
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The demographic transformation of America: from 88% white in the 1960s to 41% people of color today
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Why mobilizing the existing diverse majority is more effective than chasing white swing voters
TIMESTAMPS
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Time |
Topic |
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0:00 |
Introduction & show overview |
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1:08 |
Guest intro: Steve Phillips — author, political leader, founder of Democracy in Color |
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2:43 |
Do we still need to talk about race? Steve says: now more than ever |
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3:41 |
The 2015 escalator speech and the politics of White racial anxiety |
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5:00 |
Post-George Floyd commitments abandoned — where we are now |
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6:10 |
Steve's background: growing up as a child of the civil rights movement in Cleveland |
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7:10 |
First Black family on Dartmoor Road; seeing MLK as a toddler |
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8:35 |
Simma's personal story: the March on Washington and her junior high school protest |
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9:08 |
What's happening with young people today — reasons for hope |
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10:07 |
Zohran Mamdani's NYC mayoral campaign as a generational movement |
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12:03 |
Young conservatives and Charlie Kirk: the danger of silence on the left |
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13:00 |
MLK's quote on the silence of good people |
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15:13 |
Simma's personal connection to Steve's books and finding hope |
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16:36 |
Brown Is the New White — Obama's election and demographic transformation |
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19:33 |
How We Win the Civil War — the Confederates never stopped fighting |
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21:38 |
Are White Men Smarter Than Everybody Else? — the book's origin and SWAMP framework |
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22:20 |
White men are only 29% of the population — yet dominate every power structure |
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25:15 |
The "meritocracy" myth exposed — preferences have always existed for white men |
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26:35 |
The Emily & Greg / Lakeisha & Jamal resume study (University of Chicago) |
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27:58 |
The Chosen — how elite college admissions were rigged for preferred whites in the 1920s |
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29:40 |
Hope and strategy: the majority already exists — why Democrats keep losing anyway |
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33:11 |
If all Texans had voted in 2020, Biden would have won Texas |
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34:42 |
2024: Democrats spent $1B on TV ads instead of community organizing |
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37:00 |
Voter apathy, Nick Cannon, and why people say "there's no point voting" |
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40:40 |
Zohran Mamdani's free childcare platform and delivering for voters |
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42:00 |
Local organizing wins: Kansas City Tenants Union gets 6,000 votes and passes a bill of rights |
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43:13 |
A crusade for democracy: the call for a million precinct captains |
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46:25 |
The demographic revolution: U.S. is now 41% people of color (was 12% in the mid-'60s) |
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48:16 |
Progressive white allies — a historic tradition and a crucial part of the coalition |
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50:37 |
"Fear of a Black Planet Syndrome" and what individuals can do right now |
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51:57 |
SWAMP audits — a tool anyone can use to go on offense |
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54:16 |
DEI vs. racial justice: Simma clarifies the distinction |
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55:07 |
Practical steps: virtual precinct captains and SWAMP audits |
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56:16 |
Book recommendation: Practical Radicals by Deepak Bhargava & Stephanie Luce |
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57:23 |
Show recommendation: Andor (Disney+) — fighting back against authoritarianism |
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58:31 |
Where to find Steve: democracyincolor.com |
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58:57 |
Closing thoughts: keep talking about race, build the multiracial democracy |